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Zaran Darkstar
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2008.06.18 03:35:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Zaran Darkstar on 18/06/2008 03:44:24
For PvE the current precision heavies are very good. You can hit anything apart spider drones II perhaps and do good damage. The diminished signature of the precision heavies helps much against the NPC annoying frigates. While the supposed "better" precision cruise missiles have very big signature unable to deliver good damage even to NPC cruisers. I know you have the PvP in mind but there are also PvE needs. In PvE the frigates never go faster than 880m/s so the current explosion velocity of the heavies at 1000 does matter.
If an upgrade would be made that should be on cruise precision missiles giving them maybe half their current signature radius. That would help against those sturdy tech 2 frigates in Lvl 4 missions.
Initially i thought that perhaps it would be better if CCP creates additional missile types like "Precision MKII" for example more inclined for PvP purposes.But then i realised that there is a reason there are these current missile limitations. Don't forget that it not about a specific missile penalty in particular. Actually everything is impossible to be hit when traveling very fast regardless of weapon platform be it turrets or missiles. At least missiles always hit at non mwd speeds regardless while the turrets keep failing. Also missiles don't take into consideration your (caldari) ship's speed For example a mwd moving turret boat canlt hit much while orbiting with mwd on while a missile ship can keep traveling ultra fast and alwasy hit a supposed imobile target.
So for all these reasons i don;t support this idea.
That is why i don't support this idea. Not because i have this Minmatar character. I happen to have another account that flies Caldari. But it just dosn't seem good for game balance. |
Zaran Darkstar
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2008.06.18 18:54:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: MalVortex
....
1) As we all know when you arrive at the mission area there are several "packs" of enemies that act separatly as small groups. So you try to get the minimal aggro possible. You never engage the whole spawn.Only just a small pack of enemies each time then proceed to the next. In most Guristas missions the drones get agrroed from the packs you have not aggroed yet. The only way to keep your drones from geting agroo is to agrro the whole spawn therefore packs A B C D which is "unprofessional" . So i mostly use drones to break the tank of the BSes faster. I can kill the T2 frigates using precision heavies much easier. Usually a couple of salvoes will do it. i don't remember exaxctly how many salvos i need cause i haven't played a lvl 4 in Drake for ages. It's a bit dull to play Drake lvl 4s...Anyway... The thing is that i take down frigates t1 and tech 2 much faster using only missiles. I got good drone skills with that Caldari character but why use drones when i do it with heavies a lot faster? And much more conveniently for most guristas missions.
For the same reason if i happen to play missions with Zaran that flies Apocalypse and Maelstorm i try to pop the frigates from afar before they reach me (AB helps much in that) so that i save my drones from the aggro in Guristas missions. I remember one case in a guristas mission using the Maelstorm (without AB) that while i aggroed a pack of frigates i got jammed and by the time i was unjammed the frigates were orbiting near me. I had to use drones but they got aggroed by a pack of cruisers far away that was "neutral" so far. I managed to kill the frigates but when i was done i had lost about 7 light drones II) And that is the problem with the drones in some guristas missions. Thats why i prefer to use precision heavies when i can (if in Drake) .
2) For the first moments they orbit very fast around you at 5000m/s !! Gradually they orbit for less. In fact i don't remember very well that is why i mentioned it before that is why i said that [b]perhaps[b/] you can't hit spider drones II with precision. I haven't been in a lvl 4 with a Drake that contained Spiders II . With Zaran i take them out with Drones since Zaran doesn't fly the Drake)
The problem is in their signature. Spider drones have a signature of 25? maybe 20? If i hit them with missiles of 150signature i won't damage them much. The base 75signature of the precision heavies + the skills gets down to about 45 if i remember right so i could deal them some decent damage like that.
3) Yes but as i said the problem is in the signature of missiles in that case. Explosion velocity is fine for PvE. And the lessened signature counts as i mentioned in 2)
4) i just mentioned that about the missions in case you hadn't taken into consideration how nicely the current precision heavies work in missions and for the same reason how bad the precision cruiser missiles are for missions with their current large signature radius. Probably you say that the precision cruiser missiles are great since in PvP with all these ships MWDing the signature is not a problem even against interceptors. I ve never happened to use precision missiles in PvP so far due to th fact that when i was PvPing (for Razor) i had not the skills for tech 2 missiles yet.
5) i bet that precision cruise missiles they do an overall good damage against cruiser ships for the reasons you said but they will be worthless against the frigates cause their base signature even with skills is too big to destroy the T2 frigates. That was my point. I perceived the mater from a PvE scope not PvP.
6) Perhaps i should have been more precise. Lets take this example.
Ship A is a nano cruiser.
Ship B is a turret BS.
Ship C is a Raven or a Drake (non nano)
1) Ship A is orbiting ship B with mwd on. Ship B fails to hit everytime.
2) Ship A is orbiting ship B without mwd on but in close orbit . Ship B depending on the weapon platform it uses may hit some "light hit" here and there but still keeps missing mostly.
Lets see what happens with ship C
1) Ship A is orbiting ship C with mwd on. Ship C hits but for 0 damage everytime due to the missile penalties
2) Ship A is orbiting ship C without mwd on but in close orbit . Here ship C will hit for big damage. See the advantage of missiles?
So missiles will do big damage and always hit non mwded targets. Turrets will fail to hit even non mwded targets if they orbit too close.
And let's not forget the example of Nano Typhoon orbiting around and immobile Blasterthron. The nano Typhoon will kill the Blasterthron because the missiles give it the advantage to move in MWD and hit. The opposite can't happen. See now the advantages of the missiles in PvP?
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Zaran Darkstar
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2008.06.18 22:41:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Kurt Gergard
Disregarding the fact that the topic is about PVP not PVE i won't coment on the other points you made. But I see a deep sens of you not understanding the issue. First of all the BS ship attacking nano has a slight chance of hitting especialy if the nano pilot does sth wrong while the missile guy has non because speed = immunity to missiles. Second did you read the op's post? I seriously doubt it. The main point of it was to bring the heavy precisions in line with light and cruise nothing more. And if missiles are so great in pvp why do I see mainly turret ships ? Missiles have a lot of drawbacks in the world of nano and some advantages when ships with missiles are nanoed. But missile ships are mainly a caldari thing and caldari ships are not the fastest out there so giving us(the caldari) some slight compensation for not being able to compete for speed seems a good trade don't you think ?
Yes perhaps i carried away too much with PvE. I just wanted to mention that as they are they are very useful for PvE anf reply to the other guy about some things he said on PvE.
The thing is that if we see what the OP says:
_______________________________________________
The New Damage % Breakdown at Level V skills:
Precision Heavy û 3000m/s (2000*1.5)
3500m/s: 89.48393168%
4000m/s: 64.11803884%
4500m/s: 36.78794412%
5000m/s: 16.90133154%
5500m/s: 6.217652402%
6000m/s: 1.831563889%
6500m/s: 0.432023947%
___________________________________________
Since the average interceptor orbits at about 4500m/s to 5000m/s
The damage it will be recieving seems to be around 30%. 30% from heavy missiles that are doing about 290 damage each. The 30% of that is around 100 damage. 100 damage x 7 launchers of the Drake = 700 damage per salvo to an orbiting interceptor. Assuming that some of it will be reduced by the natural resistences it will be around 400 damage per salvo. I think it's too much. The Drakes apart of all the rest (the godly tank comes to mind) will be anticeptor pwnmobiles) Consider that even turret cruiser ships will always miss an interceptor orbiting around them at that speed.
Does this seem balanced to you?
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Zaran Darkstar
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2008.06.19 03:49:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Zaran Darkstar on 19/06/2008 03:52:36
Originally by: MalVortex
This is the last time I'm feeding this troll:
1) My Crow does 6.3kms. 2x ODII, 1x NFII, AC IV. Learn to fit crows.
Oh yeah? Well my Crusader goes 7100 but still when it orbits at 21 (3 overdrives II, 1 nanofiber II )it doesn't go beyond 5600. Perhaps if i had AC 4 could go a bit more but always that speed would be below the max possible speed. So improbable your crow to orbit at it's max speed as well.
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2) Interceptors tackling at sub 24km is fail. My warp disrupter II goes to 24km. Why on earth would I orbit at 21km?
Because the way the game works nothing works at the exact nominal range. For example one may have drone range 54km but if you are siting at 54km the drones will deny to attack. You have to go down to 53km to actually fire them. This from experience. So you can't expect that you will orbit with that crow at 24km and that the crow will maintain that exact orbit at all times. You need to leave some space to it. Let's not forget that your target isn't static and that will affect yopur orbit accuracy. That is why you chose a closer orbit that the nominal for your disruptor.
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3) If your crow goes to web, expect to be counterwebed and instapopped by the vast majority of PVP targets you will engage.
There is no rule imposing that every ship wears always a webber at the mids. Let alone that it has happened before to be grabed in web by a Deimos and still was unable to hit me with blasters probably because i was orbiting at 500. why should the Cerberus have the insane advantage to pwn any ceptor in most cases irregardless of mwd or not?
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4) If you want to orbit closer to ensure the target can't *somehow* juke scrambling, be prepared to take a hit. You would take it from most other turret based ships.
I am prepared to take a hit but not be pwned with a couple of slavos as you try to make happen.
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5) Drakes don't have velocity bonus to missiles. As Gypsio stated, those missiles won't even catch you once you break 5.5kms
How about Cerberus? Cerberus with the rate of fire bonus makes around same damage as a Drake and with velocity bonus with your upgrade will catch even ceptors travelling at 9km. Let alone that will be the ship that will pwn the nano cruisers even the average Vagabond without breaking a sweat. Why should Cerberus be so much upgraded? Because you happen to fly it?
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6) None of your points are relevant to this fix.
They are but you fail to realise it blinded by your arrogance.
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7) Finally, I don't hate you. I hate your troll posts. Now leave.
I don't hate you either. I hate only your arrogant geekish posts. Nop, i am not leaving  |
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